the rhino bike..

deacon · #1 08-16-2009, 12:38 AM

I have begun to build a friction drive. The drive is actually the rear wheel of a scooter with a scooter motor and controller. I just started a new one so I thought I would take you along for the build.

First of all I have been assembling the parts while I wait for the rear wheel of the scooter to arrive. Since I have done this before I know exactly what I need and but I can't assemble it until the wheel arrives.

I have a 500 watt motor and controller with throttle waiting. I have two pieces of angle steel with a hole cut for the scooter axle. I have the battery trailer rebuilt for optimum performance.

I bought a yard sale bike today and rebuilt it. To rebuild it I had to almost build a bike from scratch. Here is the list..

The easiest fix... it had no kick stand..

The crank arms were too long. I had a shorter set from a kids 20" bike.

The seat was a laid back thing but it was too short. I welded an extension on it.

The front fork was loose but wouldn't tighten. It was all rusted in place. I used an angle grinder to cut it loose. Then I installed a 20" suspension fork with shackles to raise it two inches. I then had to mount the front brake to it with a special holder welded on.

I replaced the handlebars with a set I had laying around.

I cut and reassembled the chain. Then new chain ring was larger than the old one.

So here are some photos of it after it was fixed but before I touched up the paint. I wanted to show the repairs.

deacon · #2 08-16-2009, 11:59 AM

While I await my wheel, I salvaged a couple of rails for the sides of the bike. They had been part of a PAT which I built last. The Rhino is no more than a pat turned upside down. I use a smaller wheel, but it is more or less the same drive system.

Once the wheel gets here, Tuesday, I will need to mount it to the rails, attach the motor which already has the mount attached, make a couple of end caps, add a hinge and spring along with a scissor hinge to keep it in line, then it will be ready to wire and ride. I have a couple of relays on the way to eliminate the need for a controller.

So look for more updates to this system coming sometime after Tuesday.

**myocardia** · #3 08-16-2009, 12:28 PM

Deacon, can you give us a picture of these rails? What exactly is their purpose, or are you just talking about the sides of the motor mount you'll be mounting on this bike? BTW, how do you find the time to garage sale, and build all of these electric bikes?

deacon · #4 08-16-2009, 06:11 PM

Why I'm disabled. When I started with bicycles I was stumbling and my balance was almost completely gone. I have a brain tumor and a couple of heart attacks. I was pretty much waiting for the end.

I thought I would try a bike. I bought one at salvation army thrift store. I had not ridden a bike in almost fifty years. The brain tumor is squeezing my brain so the voids that control balance is being misshaped as far as I can tell. It's kind of like a tiny water level in there.

Anyway I took the bike home and got on it in my driveway. It was a 24" mountain bike. I promptly feel off it and skinned my kneed and banged the heck out of my shoulder. I donated that bike to goodwill. As the days went on I decided I would not give up so I bought a big huffy cruiser on craig's list.

I wasn't a lot of fun but I didn't fall off it anyway. The heart damaged caused the hills to beat me to death, but I got better and better at staying upright on it. My brain was finding new ways to control my balance.

I read somewhere on the net about a man who built an ebike with a starter motor. It said the motor just helped him with hills. Now that was just what I thought I needed. So I began experimenting and I just never stopped.

After a few tries with the ebikes I went to the china gasoline kit engines, then weed whackers and chain saws. From there I went back to ebikes. Mainly I stay with them now because they are unregulated. I also don't go far or have a need for speed so they suit my purpose.

Yes the side rails are just to hold the motor. They are just a foot of angle iron with a 3/8 hole drilled in them. I will bolt the axle to them then make and end cap for each end to make the full unit.

I have been thinking about the hinge mount that I usually do on the front of the motor frame. I attach it to the bike with a single 1/4 bolt. I have never had a problem with it but it does allow the motor to vibrate loose then twist. That is the reason I have to build a scissor hinge for one side of the motor.

I'm thinking I just might cut a piece of that box channel you can buy at the home depot just a hair shorter than the wheel frame is wide. then weld a couple of pieces of flat stock to the sides of the motor frame. I could then slip those on each side of the channel I welded to the bike and run a long bolt through all of it. It would allow the motor frame to ride on the bolt/pin but eliminate most of the side to side twist.

that particular attachment method would also allow it to be attached to a mountain bike without losing the brakes on the rear wheel. Minimally intrusive except for the welding which would ruin the paint. that is a non issue with me but probably a big deal to a lot of people.

deacon · #5 08-16-2009, 06:25 PM

This is where I am at the moment... Just have the rails ready. I can't do anything else till I get the wheel and motor together to take measurements.

The other side rail will have the motor mount inside it. I'll try to make some photos of it.

**myocardia** · #6 08-17-2009, 09:25 PM

I'm disabled also, and I still can't find that much time. I'm sorry to hear about your brain tumor. I had a stroke, and I thought that was horrible. I felt sorry for myself (which I hate to admit) the entire time I was relearning to speak. Well, I had to relearn to speak intelligibly.

Please keep us informed about this project. Some of us (me, for one) enjoy reading about your adventures. I've also been reading your "regular" blog, as well as your bike blog. They are enjoyable reading, to me at least. I think you should link them in your sig here, like you do at motorbicycling.com.

deacon · #7 08-17-2009, 11:10 PM

Thanks I knew one person was reading them.... So now I know who you are.... I have them linked except for the novel in progress. That is linked from the blog.

Sorry about the stroke by the way. I build all day long most everyday. I try to stay ahead of the symptoms. Oh now and then I feel sorry for myself but then I look at some of my friends and kinfolk. Some are worse off than me of course, and some who aren't are just plain strange lol.

By the by, I did some serious experiments with over powering e scooter motors today. I found that both my cheap 350 watt controller and my better quality 500 watt controller will accept a 36 watt power supply and really hum on it. The next rhino bike I'm working on should be a real gut wrench er since it is going to be 500 watts with a power supply to kick it up to 700 watts. I even have a bigger sprocket for the motor but I doubt that I will use it. I lack the courage to go much faster than the 350 on steroids that I created today.

I am going to have to switch trailers for the power pack since the one I'm using is a bit rough pulling. It's made from lawn mower wheels with no bearings. They have a metal wheel with bearings I'll probably use next time. I have one with scooter wheels I need to switch to for now.

**myocardia** · #8 08-18-2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon

Oh now and then I feel sorry for myself but then I look at some of my friends and kinfolk. Some are worse off than me of course, and some who aren't are just plain strange lol.

Haha, I know what you mean on both counts! No matter what's wrong with you, there's nearly always someone who is much worse off, I've noticed. Also, probably every family has that one person that nobody would ever mention in public.

Quote:

By the by, I did some serious experiments with over powering e scooter motors today.

DC electric motors handle being overvolted very well, and controllers handle an extra 12V just fine. I've seen instances of people running 72V through their 48V motors and stock controllers (scooters, not bikes), but adding two extra batteries isn't easy. That requires swapping mosfets and capacitors, etc in the controller. But I've never heard of one that couldn't handle an extra 12V indefinitely. Engineers overdesign, you know.

deacon · #9 08-18-2009, 12:10 PM

Some of the forums have the newby like me taking the controller apart and checking for marking on the components. I just gave it a try. The first time I blew a fuse and thought I might have damaged the controller. I was pretty concerned about doing it again. Then I just gave it a shot with the most robust one I had. After that I tried the cheapo version and it worked as well. The main thing is that the fuses are rated for a 12v auto system. It's scary if you don't realize that. You think you are drawing 40 amps when in fact you are drawing a little over 20 amps the rating of the motor when it blows. That is even with a 40 amp fuse.

My main problem with that now is trailers. I built my best trailer to carry two sla batteries. I tested the over power system with a trailer make from lawn mower wheels. It won't fall apart but the wheels have to be a bit loose for it to move. It does not track as well as the one make with scooter front wheels. I expect that before my wheel comes today I will try to rebuild the bed on the scooter wheel trailer. Since the 24v runs slower I will probably keep the lawn mower wheel trailer for it. From that experiment I at least learned the value of a square trailer tongue. That is a good thing to know.

The next trailer I build will be built with a combination of things I have learned about them. One thing is the frame design using sqaure channel you can buy at the home depot and 3/8" all thread rod.

deacon · #10 08-18-2009, 07:57 PM

Building this second Rhino bike is making me crazy. The wheel I need to complete it is supposed to be on a fed ex truck and out to delivery. Its 3pm and no wheel. I swear this is going to make me crazy, I have been doing make work to pass the time.

I switched trailers so the good trailer has the 36v battery pack. I make a come along for the trailer so I can roll it in and out off the bike. I pulled the motor from the DIY wheel that never worked quite right. I just need to get the wheel so I can bolt it together.

Oh well I guess this is going to build character.